El foro de Lonely Planet está actualmente en modo lectura, pero puedes seguir navegando por los temas existentes para obtener respuestas a tus preguntas de viaje.

Muy urgente: están expulsando españoles en los aeropuertos brasileños

Mensajes: 5

GRM177, Vie May 11, 2012 4:10 am

Dear Chasqui,

France, with all respect, is not a good example, my example was comparing anglo-saxonic colonies with spanish ones, and sure, no rule is absolut. England and U.S., perhaps with Germans still rules the world, with China in another hand.

Venezuela perhaps (I won't put my hand on fire for that) don't produce coke, but they give a huge support to FARC, which produces.

Which was not said, it is Colombia and Chile are changing (to best) that spanish cursed legacy, but it is recent.

As I said before, we have lots of structural problems and bad income distribution, but we have a lot of money too. If do I prefer europe's quality of life? Sure, give me a regular job and I'm there next day, but things are changing, lots of brazilians coming back, sure not people like you or me, but most poor workers which have no means to get a better life overseas as they thought they had.

But, what I tried to say is you, regular spanish guys, perhaps have no idea, that a lot of brazilians (including scientists and academics) have been banned from Barajas in the last few years, all times our government (which I don't love, I don't like Lula and Dilma, I'm pro-FHC, I'm a democrat) warned you through Spain's embassy to stop it, really, I saw it happens perhaps two, three, four, five years... so, and I agree with the same treatment that our government starts to give.

And you are badly informed, in Spain, they are deporting brazilians without check properly if they are ilegals, turists, business man, scientists etc., they simply say - go home, even persons who get in country are saying after they return were very badly treated, here no... here travellers, even deporteds are well treated, Brazil has not started to worry if ilegals are looking for jobs, we are deporting to keep diplomacy rule of reciprocity under the eyes and U.N. aprovals.

Do I hate spanish turists? Sure not, my grandparents were from there, but, believe me, 2000 brazilians deported, humiliating treatment in Barajas, against 100 spanish turists and travellers, it is still a very polite warning, by me none from Spain should be allowed to get in this country till the hostilities stop.

The most bizar is that is easier get into Europe by England or France (countries much more interestings for jobs than Spain). And I reinforce, the bigger problem, is not send some brazilians back to home, the problem is the nazy treatment you are giving, but as said, perhaps local press does not show what is really happing there.

Last, but not least, I still hate monarchy and elephant's murderer kings. Really, a king in 2012 (for me future is already now) killing one of the most important species with public money? Shame.

Mensajes: 402

chasqui, Vie May 11, 2012 4:13 pm

¿GB y Alemania dominan el mundo? Más o menos. Bueno, GB tiene la boma atómica, como también Francia. No entiendo por qué Francia no es un buen ejemplo, mientras GB sí.

No entiendo por qué te burlas tanto de la herencia hispánica de los países de Suramérica, cuando Brasil tiene una herencia portuguesa, que no es muy anglosajona que digamos y no se diferencia muchísimo de la española. En general se habla de herencia ibérica, que reúne a los dos países: España y Portugal.

No te gustan Lula ni Rusself, estás con FHC (¿Cardoso?). Bueno, el crecimiento de Brasil en los últimos años se debe también a Lula, no hay que olvidarlo.

Es obvio que Brasil tenga mucha plata, son 200 millones de habitantes. Pero el PIB per cápita de Brasil es de solo 10.000 dólares, contra los 32.000 de España...

A mí tampoco me gusta la monarquía y menos la caza en general (soy vegetariano). Pero en Brasil cuántas especies animales están desapaeciendo? Cuánta selva se está talando? Cántos ríos se están envenenando?
Podrán cortar todas las flores,

pero jamás detendrán la primavera

Mensajes: 5

GRM177, Vie May 11, 2012 5:41 pm

U.S., China, GB and Germany economicaly rules, understand? Not talking about weapons only.

I don't like Portuguese legacy too, but you forgot, or don't know that many germans, italians and japanese also had colonies here, where they did we have today much deleveloped places.

The Brazil's development from last years was only possible by conditions created by FHC, and Lula has expent with no responsability, some day we will be charged for that, so what looks like on one point of history is always good if looked in future points.

Because we have some species going bad, Spain's king is allowed to kill elephants? Please, with those argumentation I stop here.

The most interesting thing is you didn't touch the point about degradating treatment given to brazilian in Barajas (Madri's Airport).

And well, I really don't care, I don't want to go Spain in next years, I just clarified reasons why Brazil is sending back spanish citizens, rule which has diplomacy support.

Mensajes: 402

chasqui, Vie May 11, 2012 5:55 pm

Si lees mejor en lugar de llegar a conclusiones apresuradas y a juicios sumarios, podrías darte cuenta que yo escribí "A mí tampoco me gusta la monarquía y menos la caza en general", así que no apruebo en absoluto la caza y menos de elefantes. Pero con esto no significa que España o el Rey sean peores de los brasileños que estan destrozando la Amazonía para sembrar soya, etc. Es decir: vergüenza para el Rey y también para Brasil.

No toco el argumento de los brasileños supestamente echados de Barajas porque ni tú ni yo tenemos información de primera mano, tú te basas en historias que te cuentan o en información de los periódicos que - you undestand! - no es la más confiable.

En tu primer ensaje escribes "I'm lawyer here with a very privileged cultural level", pero tu supuesto nivel cultural queda en entredicho cuando hablas generalidades sobre mexicanos y venezolanos (como si en Brasil no existieran locos); cuando sacas la vieja historia del saqueo colonial de spaña, cuando Brasil más recientemente ha robado territorio a todos los países vecinos.

Escribes "I'm not xenophobic", pero tu defensa de la cultura anglosajona sobre la ibérica me suena mucho a xenofobia y me hace pensar que eras un frustrado y reprimido porque quisieras ser inglés (como los argentinos), pero lástimas eras un brasileño con ascendetes españoles... horror!!

Y no me olvidé del legado italiano y alemán en Rio Grande do Sul, porque es gracias a ellos y no a los lugareños que Basil es el país que es.
Podrán cortar todas las flores,

pero jamás detendrán la primavera

Mensajes: 5

GRM177, Vie May 11, 2012 6:09 pm

I don't defend anglo-saxonic culture, I'm defending anglo-saxonic results, I'm saying that Spain is a country not that mentally developed as they would like to think they are, they legacy is cursed, destroyed many civilizations and another cultures even more mentally advanced, they complain that are beinga badly treated here, but don't care what's happening under their own eyes, because that I did mention to murderer king.

And be free, you don't know me, think what you want, my point and message for who don't know why is sending back home from here is, check what is happening in your country before talking xenophoby as many did on posts above, brazilians are happy, but no stupid, we will give the same treatment in abusive cases, I have never heard any complain about U.S. or England in same situations, but from Spain always, so, even I'm not there, we have an independent press and when are so many cases, something is true for sure.

By the way, you are a colombian latin american which is not suject to this customs affairs so I have nothing to argue, good luck.

Mensajes: 402

chasqui, Vie May 11, 2012 6:17 pm

I'm not colombian, mate. Take it easy
Podrán cortar todas las flores,

pero jamás detendrán la primavera

Mensajes: 5

GRM177, Sab May 12, 2012 2:15 am

I'm easy. As I said, I'm world's citizen, I have no nationality in my mind, I love almost all cultures (except some, I really don't like India and any muslam totalitary countries, nothing against people, but I like higiene and there was none, perhpaps because that after seasons on India some guys come back loving everything in their countries), I lived in Australia, NZ, South Africa and some other places, despite I'm brazilian... but some facts must be said, Brazil only started to ban foreigns after many, but really, many many cases against brazilian citizens, and not ilegal. U.S. and England doesn't allow many brazilians to get in, and nobody blocks americans and britishes in here, the problem is when legal citizens are not allowed to know the country (Spain in this case), leave our money, when authorities choose see every brazilian as ilegal, Spain is cool, but is not that cool for too much, in a world with more than 150 countries we have many places to know, leave money, show our researches and cooperate with business. Just to mention, as I also said before, and I'm joking for sure, perhaps Alonso is now much better than Massa, but Facebook was made with Eduardo Saverin's help, Apple choose here as second base, Petrobras is much bigger than Repsol, VALE provides 50% ore and steel, we are togheter (changing between 6 and 7 position) with Great Britain as economy, and Spain are not getting a sit on UN security concil, but Brazil has some chances. I'm telling Brazil is better than Spain? No, don't get me wrong as you are trying to get, but as already said and repeated, things have changed, open your eyes, more respect with brazilians travellers and you will be well treated here.

One last point, if the problem wasn't diplomatic reciprocity, you probably would hear some other europeans complaining about treatment here... Have you heard? I'm sure not, the problem is very especific with Spain, just because Spain has been doing it first, even after public warnings and direct talkings with Spain's embassy, which by the way, always promise solution, but do nothing, so, pacience has gone, and please rementer, for every guy sent back from here, Spain did the same for 20 brazilians, the funny (and sad too) is that Spain needs more money now, we don't.

Spanish citizens must charge Spain's government, that they will find the reasons for the recent and sad facts.

Volver a “Brasil”